Post Info TOPIC: Devaraja Market: heritage or scrap-heap of history?
GVK

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Devaraja Market: heritage or scrap-heap of history?
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Response has been overwhelming to our earlier item – Devaraja market: mayor has spoken. Comments have spilled over to Page 2, and some interesting ones could be missed out by those running out of patience to scroll down the full length. So we thought of copy-n-pasting the tail-end comments, to help those who wish to keep the thread of messages going.


The messages from Page 2 of the earlier item are from Dinakar,  Suresh Yerapathi, Capt. Anup Murthy, Madhukar, - ‘usual suspects’, if I may call them. Here they are, copied-and-pasted:


 


Dinakar: Yes, 'to the market' meant to THIS market. The word 'shopping' never was in vogue. I remember an article in DH in 1986 written to coincide its centenary year [hope my memory is right] so that means now it is close to 120 years. The cobwebs in the tiled portions must be as old as that!! Our authorities seem to put the tag of 'heritage' only when something collapses. Till then it escapes their attention.  Without going there, they must learn how in Germany they have maintained structures and buildings as old as 400 years and how it is protected. Even in Korea. They use the word 'treasure'!


 In the 70s and even early 80s when I used to go any of the shops outside the Market to buy some things, I used to park my Robin Hood bicycle in front of that shop [space was there to push it along on the pavement!] to finish the purchase. Roads have eaten footpaths and pavements and there was no need of even a barricade then.


 There was that Shetty's shop that sold marbles and tops [now I think his grandson runs a stationery shop here at the Bakery entrance on Sayyaji Rao Road]. Of course, Bata had dominated footwear market and there was [never] no competition  from  Carona or Flex.


If you want "Ili Bone" [mouse trap] you will get here in the Market. If you want kerosene pump, you will get. chilli powder - you will get, fresh flowers, you will get, toys- you will get, provisions, yes.  artificial hair [ladies] you will find, brooms, and what not. It's such a beautiful place. But the structure is allowed to dilapidate to this extent is a shame. Old lime-mortar structures can never be repaired with cement. The 'kappi' on balconies become leaky [notice some plants growing near cornices even now]. The best thing is to protect the entry point as heritage and renovate most of the weaker parts.


 


 Endorse I do to Madhukar's memories! I was there too on grandfather's other side !!  


Suresh Yerapathi: Does anyone know what is the final verdict with respect to  Devaraja Market? We all have been blogging over the past one month or so ..


 


But what is the final verdict? Restore or Demolish? The opinions among the bloggers is kinda tied.. two or three persons want it to be demolished and rebuilt, three or four persons want it to be restored.. and two to three person haven't voice their choice..


 


So where do we stand?


Capt. Anup Murthy: Today Star of Mysore Jan 5th 2006 has two letters writing for the demolition of Devaraja market. it is good to get some views on both sides to an argument. Both letters on the front page!


 


The first letter says that the market is not a heritage building but an old building and one that is not good looking vis a vis attara Kacheri in Bangalore etc etc. I looked up various dictionaries and the thesaurus. heritage is something "passed on from one generation to the next". So, the market is indeed a heritage. If the author of that letter goes on to define what a heritage building actually means. I could not find that definition anywhere. I wonder if the writer is just blowing hot air, writing on behalf of some lobby or is a renowned English professor who is an authority on exposition of "real meanings" not found in dictionaries or he may be a chap with vivid imagination! According to his definition then, most buildings in Mysore are just old buildings, no architectural gems and therefore Mysore is not really a heritage city, its just a city with old buildings! Oh boy!


 


Lastly he takes a dig at some of the people who have been voicing their opinion on the market asking why they had woken up suddenly and where they were for so many years when the building was deteriorating. At least some people decided to wake up, better late than never. Some of them, like your truly have been abroad for the better patr of the last 18 years. Where was this writer and what was he doing for so many years allowing the building to deteriorate?


 


Another letter just below this gem is from a Kuwait Mysorean? The market is dirty, filthy, totally unhygenic (these are the words used in his letter). So, he suggests demolition! WOW! Not to clean up the place and restore it, make it pristine etc. Hey, if you dirty your house would you clean it or demolish it? Get real. Thanks SOM for putting these two letters on the front page!


Capt. Murthy:  A note to Mr. Yerapathi's note: Among bloggers here, I think restoration and repair lobby (if i may loosely call that) is slightly ahead. But, among the vast numbers of people (who are varied in their age and origin and when I say vast numbers of people, I really mean vast numbers of educated and aware people) I have spoken to and who have called me as a result of my letters, I can say that there's no support for demolition.


 


Mr. Ravindra Gundu Rao's letter in SOM 4th Jan 2006 "Conservation Architect clarifies" mentions the cost of restoration and clearly mentions the cost of re-building being a costlier option. Re-building may line some politicians pockets but is that what we want?


Madhukar: "Devaraja Market - Demolition and Rebuild case lost to 11 year old's Statement"

This is what a newspaper headline would probably read if some reporter had spoken to my 11 year old niece -Disha Dinakar (the daughter of Dinakar who is also on this panel). I spoke to her on Wednesday after Dinakar posted his view informing her of the fight for Devaraja Market. She wanted to know what it was all about. When informed of the option of demolition and reconstruction of the 110 year old building, her reaction summed it all up.

"The new building will not last that long"

Any second opinion?


Suresh Yerapathi: Rightly said Capt. Anup about the number of people not providing a affirmative decision. Whatever the decision the corporation takes.. we still have to think about how they are going about it .. personally speaking I am not for demolition nor i am against restoration, whatever might be the case, I am more concern about how the corporation is going to provide the makeshift arrangement and what is going on in their minds.. That is of more concern to me.. if you have seen the market on MG Road then anyone would understand what I am talking about.. Where ever they are planning to re-allocate the present vendors.. they are bound to create a mess!! and once the new Devaraja market or the restored market is up for occupation.. would the vendors leave the temporary place alloted neat and clean or would the vendors still continue to sell would be my concern!!


 


Mr. Ravi Gundu Rao has mentioned the costs respectively.. but wanted to know if the costs is inclusive of re-allocation costs or just the restoration or demolition...


 


I would look at the whole situation as a utilitarian point of view and not in terms of heritage or old building!! If we all were taking about heritage point of view.. then we have actually lost so many heritage building in and around Mysore city.. court complex (new annex coming up around the building), Jaganmohan Palace (under shambles), Landsowne building (no maintenance) to name a few.. if we all were so serious about heritage then we should have stopped or made sure these buildings were maintained .. we missed out on that.. didn't we?


 



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Capt. Anup Murthy

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Once again Mysoreans are sleeping. Scrap heap of history it may be for this structure. Some "overseas" readers of SOM have pointed out that it is merely a market and not a heritage building. I don't know whether some of these people who write, in English, really know the language well. Look up any dictionary or thesaurus and you'll get the meaning of "heritage". Heritage does not always mean Taj mahal, Qutb Minar and the like. It is merely something that is "passed down from one generation to the other", merely an "inheritance".


Our self appointed representatives are staging dharnas elsewhere now, wherever the opportunity to get themselves into newspapers is better. And the rest of the Mysoreans only grumble amongst themselves, reminisce about Dosas and the "good old days".


Mera Mysore Mahaan Indeed!



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Suresh Yerapathi

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I wonder if anyone of us can attend the council meeting when they table the so called detailed report from the experts and also when they present the five designs, including the one which is made inhouse.


I know curiosity kills the cat.. but somehow, i am more keen to know how & on what parameters have they designed and estimated the proposal!!


Capt. Anup, do you have anything in your mind to suggest? what we the Mysoreans should be doing rather than blogging, writing to newspapers etc.,? we need to stop writing to newspapers, coz it just fills up the columns... not further effect... neither the editors of the newspapers nor the authorities reply or react..


That's why I thought about about wait for the report to be tabled.. Or would Capt. Anup be interested in starting a meaningful & effective campaign?



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Capt. Anup Murthy

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My reply to Mr. Yerapathi is that we must not stop writing to the newspaper. My experience from writing is that this issue is being talked about by everyone. The issue must be kept on the front burner. I never write anything to get a reply from the Authorities, I'd be surprised to get one from them. I urge more people to write about this issue, whatever their ideas are. We must continue to blog because, all said and done, there are people who are reading what we write here and thats good. This forum is a good base for any meaningful campaign.


We must have someone or a group of people attend any future meeting, if at all such a meeting takes place anytime soon. Our officials and elected representatives will never wake up in time unless there is an impending election or if another mishap happens (maybe by next Monsoon). If I am in Mysore at the time, there's no doubt that I will attend any such meetings where public will be allowed to participate or use whatever contacts to participate. It should be a "town hall" type of meeting for it to be meaningful. All attempts to build a new multi storied market must be resisted. If we are to de-congest the city center, the market must not be expanded. Source and proof of funding is another aspect that needs to be severly questioned.


The problem is that resident Mysoreans must take more interest and take it forward and not depend on those of us that are not here all the time. Thats not stopping me from seeking some advice on what can be done and what should be done.



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Capt. Anup Murthy

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I read an article in Indian Express dtd 21st Jan 2006 titled "Facelift to shravanabelagola monuments" on page two, a big article on how ancient monuments and construction are being resored using original materials. The person who has been awarded this contract and who has rich experience in such restoration is Mr. Ravi Gundu Rao of Mysore. He's the same person who had also approached the Dy Commissioner Mr. Selva Kumar along with Mr. KB Ganapathy (SOM) and others to put a stay on the demolition or hasty decision by the MCC regarding our Devaraja Market. I could not find it on the net edition at this time and hence could not link the article.


When we have such talent in our city and our notable persons who are good at restoration, why is there still no move by the MCC? There's a cold war between the Mayor and the MCC Commissioner on other issues and the Market has taken a back seat. Fortuntately it is the dry season now otherwise another roof at the Market would have collapsed while the MCC sleeps.


This is not to advertise my blog but Mysoreans have been cheated by not only our city fathers but also by the State Government and I have written a note about the issue of Mysore Airport in my latest blog titled: "Competition pains".


Since Mysore Airport is also technically a "heritage" airport as its been there very long, much before India's independence and was used by the Maharaja's DC-3 Dakota  other British raj rulers at that time, maybe there should be a public debate on that issue as well. Like the Devaraja Market, maybe we should also question whether Mysore Airport at Mandakalli is also going to be a scrap heap of history?



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madhukar

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Looks like all things Mysore - topics and issues quickly take a back seat. Is this the end of all the debate on how much we want to preserve Devaraja Market?
When I joined this forum for the first time, I noticed a lot of intensity in the persons involved. Does it take so little time before topics like "Speed Bump---" overtake these type of issues?
As I have made clear in my first reply to his issue, I am for restoration of the Devaraja Market complex. But unfortunately, I am residing out of Mysore. I INTEND TO RETURN TO MYSORE. I had hoped the enthusiasm I saw in the words of the the persons involved in the campaign would restore the glory of The Market building. But seeing the sudden loss of words and of course action has me dissapointed.
WILL I LOSE MY DEVARAJA MARKET AS I LIKED IT?
Only you can tell.


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Capt. Anup Murthy

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Actually madhukar, I have been reading other posting on the different blog page and it seems that some of these organizations who ought to be vocal in this area are making noises selectively. They have indicated, although not directly, that they have too much on their plate, so to speak. The rest of us, who are not a part of any organization, I'd say a majority, need to do something before everything crumbles.


Yours truly also visits mysore, more these days than previously. Those who are retired and live here don't really get involved as much as those of us not here all the time. I don't intend to pass any judgements but this is what I feel. Anyhow, I will be contacting you and some other people and see how we can take this issue forward. Cannot let it die.



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Madhukar

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Let not the issue or the building die. PLEASE

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Capt. Anup Murthy

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To all who have been active about this issue on this blog, I did put in a word or two about the Devaraja Market issue in the topic "MGP's speed bump Infosys" in one of my replies. Interested persons may read that blog to get my drift.


I had written a follows: "Why do some of these organizations jump from one issue to the other. Is there a shortage of people in such organizations that those issues that are on the front burner one day goes to the back burner when another issue comes up? All the noise about Devaraja Market, what happened after the dust settled? Why the deafening silence from the MGP or others? Are we still waiting for the roof to collapse again?" Gen. Vombatkere replied to this part of my write up, in his reply.


Here are some of the relevant portions of my reply (mentioned in the above referenced topic) reg the Market to Gen. Vombatkere:


"I like to stick to core issues related to Mysore and particularly the Market issue and later perhaps the restoration of other heritage buildings and the Mysore Airport."


"if there’s anything I can do with respect to the Market issue, I’d be looking for help from all quarters and would be also volunteering to help bring about a solution for this issue in particular. "


I would like some ideas from people reading and taking part in this blog to inform about any action that may be taken to bring a resolution to this issue before it becomes a crisis. ASAP please! To those of us that can handle one issue at a time, this is a perfect opportunity to do something. We are, I think, in an election year as far as MCC is concerned. This must be used as a tool for pressurizing our city fathers/mothers to do something before it is too late.


Do anyone of the readers think that a signature campaign of relevant people and the general public, submitted to the MCC, will start the ball rolling? I'm ready and willing to bell the cat when it comes to it. I don't thik we must do anything under the umbrella of other organizations since these organizations including the MGP have done and are doing their bit, in their way, to bring about a solution and are "known" to the MCC. The rest of us ordinary folk must also make ourselves heard, without organization or a club of sorts.



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Madhukar

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START THAT BALL ROLLING AND YOU HAVE ONE SIGNATORY READY. If time is pressing, I will come to Mysore just to sign that petetion. Like Mr. Anup says, it time for us - the comman man - to take the step forward and show what we want - where and how

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Capt. Anup Murthy

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Lets start with what we have been able to do so far. Just blogging on this topic and the "usual suspects" being the major contributors to the Devaraja Market issue. Other than Mr. Madhukar, the rest of the bloggers have so far not responded to the idea that I proposed, that of a organizing a signature campaign.


Some bloggers and others who browse these blog topics have not even decided or made their opinions known. Fence sitters. I met a lot of persons of some standing in Mysore and every one of then were of the opinion that a signature campaign was going to be successful in terms of collecting signatures and not successful in terms of that (signed petition) having an impact with the authorities. Fair enough.


The Government of Karnataka has formed a Heritage Task Force and Committee. This committee has clearly mentioned what their intentions are. They have, in their letter to the Mysoer Corporation, dated 19th Jan of this year, recommended for the RESTORATION of the Devaraja Market. They have further recommended that the works can be taken up locally since there is local expertise, the works need to be done in stages, the work has to be taken before May and Before the onset of the next monsoon. I support this completely.


I am in discussions with some eminent persons who are experts in the field of restoration and we will be forming some strategy, to be made known to the public in due course of time. It will involve the elected and appointed representatives. They will be made aware, by various means, that Mysoreans own this town and that no decission can be taken without the consent of the citizenry. There is going to be no let up in our activity. There are, it seems, 232 heritage structures and buildings in Mysore. We must conserve them and have development side by side, not development at the cost of destruction of our heritage. The older generation, who have lost hope in the system must be tapped for advice. The youger generation, the sms and pizza generation need to be made aware of their heritage. Once all of us know the value of our heritage, we will never allow some one to destroy the same. I hope that our fellow bloggers, although small in number, will support all efforts of the heritage task force committee and others who are committed to restore Mysore to its glory.



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Madhukar

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It is good that the report details have been brought out be Capt. Murthy. It is really heartening to see that the Heritage Task Force has recommended strongly for the RESTORATION of the Devaraja Market.
Something needs to be done on putting the report into action fast, as indicated by Capt. Murthy, before the onset of monsoon.
Remember my earlier post on this matter? Therein I had mentioned that we standby waiting for things to fall and then say it is too late to do anything other than bring the whole thing down and rebuild.
We certainly dont want that to happen.
Madhukar

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Capt. Anup Murthy

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I know some people who browse this topic and who don't agree with some of the views. What we have is a participatory democracy. Dissent is welcome. One of our friends feels that my endeavour of restoring the market is a wrong move. He feels that a multi story building, narrow (So that sayyaji rao road may be widened) and tall will do the trick. he feels that this will de-congest the city center. OK, lets have a difference of opinion. It would be nice if this person writes a dissent note on this topic. When people don't agree with something, they just avoid the topic. Don't know if this is an "Indian" trait! Lets have disagreements, let there be dissent. Thats what participatory democracy is all about.


Just a note, when they broke down the old market in bangalore and built a new one at KR Market, they made it multi storied. Did that de-congest the area? Also, why are the floors 3 and 4 unoccupied at the KR Market in bangalore? Is it because no one is going to climb three to four stories to shop and lug stuff down? Is it convenient? Is it feasible? Does MCC have so much money, what with ADB loans on its head that is seemingly not under control?


I wish I hear more dissenting voices in words on this blog. Not to shoot them down but lets question everything (due apolgies to CNN-IBN). Thanks Mr. Madhukar, you live elsewhere but are more concerned with Mysore issues than most living here.



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Suresh Yerapathi

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My thought process on this issue is that if the Heritage Task Force had strongly recommended restoration then why didn't it kick off? who were the members of the Task force?
I don't know if i am right by saying that the experts who recommended to restore the Market are looking at business opportunities or their recommendations are in the interests of Devaraja Market.
The 3rd and 4th floors at the Market in Bangalore which was rebuilt, seem to be vacant, I think we need to ascertain why it is lying vacant?
The other malls in Bangalore like Garuda or Forum have more floors, but don't have vacant space... so we must address the problem why the Bangalore Market floors are lying vacant?
We first have to see if the authorties plan to restore or demolish the structure and then go about with the next step !!
All of a sudden you find developments in the city like the Krishnaraja Boulevard advertisement banners being put up.. but the roads is still in shambles.. they have reduced the width of the Boulevard and have left the asphalting half done.. so now what is the step to that we need to take?
The Curzon parks being developed.. sounds very good.. and will surely lift the environs of Mysore city.. but still wonder from where the funds have been organized?
There are lots of questions.. but very few answers!!



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Capt. Anup Murthy

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I do have some answers Mr. Yerapathi. Some thoughts, actrually. I met some of the heritage task force and know the names of the rest, no secret, they have been mentioned in Star of Mysore several times and includes Gen. Vombatkere who has been bloggin in this forum, Dr. Parpia, Ravi gundu Rao, Dr. MS Nagraj Rao, Ranga Raju, university of Mysore history and archeology dept profs and others, they are not commercially minded at all, they have no benefits one way or the other and are actually doing good work.


Why was their recommendations not taken up yet? Ask the MCC and the MCC commissioner to be precise. My belief is that none of the politicians at the MCC or its appointed head have any benefit if the structure is not demolished and a multi story building put up.


Why the market in Bangalore is vacant in the third and fourth floors? Thats because it is a vegetable and fruit market, just like Devaraja Market. It is not a commercial mall like garuda mall and others. No veggie seller will be able to afford to be in a mall and sell his greens for Rs5/Kg. Thats why it is lying vacant. No one will trudge up those flights of stairs when they can buy the same thing on the ground floor. Its that simple.


As for allowing the Authorities to decide whether they are in favour of demolition or restoration, I don't think they are empowered to take decisions unilaterally without consulting the stake holders. One of the stake holders, the heritage task force committee have alredy tabled a report asking for restoration. No questions there. Anyway, why should we wait for the Authorities before we take the next step? Who are they? Is this  Cuba or North Korea we are living in?


Some of the other stake holders are silent on this issue all of a sudden. Thats because they are involved in too many activities.



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Suresh Yerapathi

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Thank you Capt Anup for the information on the Heritage Task Force Members, my point of view is that when such big professionals and elderly people from the society are members of the task force and if they are not in a position to drive their point across to the authorities, then who else can?

Coming to the point of Bangalore Market and Mall, we need to be upgraded with the techonology.. when the Bangalore Market was built.. they didn't plan for an escalators at that point in time the only place that had that facility was Abhinay theatre.. if i am not right.. but in the present age they actually can plan to make sure the vacant areas by installing such escalators.. My viewpoint was with the facility and not affordability..


The question of affordability rakes up another thousand questions.. I think people should understand the system of "pay and use". When I say people it includes people who sell and people who buy.. its only then we can maintain such facilities clean and hygenic..

Every shopkeeper says prices have increased so.. we too have increased.. but with respect to Devaraja Market.. the rentals are the same old rentals.. but we the people are still exorbitant prices..


My thought process thats all!!



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Madhukar

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A short passing comment as am in a tight schedule at the office.

Are the Shop keepers really paying their rents? If so at what rate?
We throw out our tenents if they do not pay their rents? cant the same be applied here?

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GVK

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That was a sharp one, for a passing comment, Madhu. Four loaded questions, in two brief lines. I am sure our our traders have answers. They make noise, selectively, as Capt.Murthy would say. The traders who have been tenents and claiming to have a say, appear not to realise that their rights as stakeholders go with responsibilities. The Devaraja Market traders can truly claim to be stakeholders, if, and, only after they discharge their responsibilities.


One such responsibility is rent payment. We have no idea, how many traders pay, how much, and to whom. How much of it goes to MCC.  How many traders at the market are allottee-occupants. What is the rent an allotee pays to MCC, and how much a tenent pays to municipal allotee. How many allotees are in rent arrears, for how long, and to what grand total figure.  Of course I don't expect answers. In the absence of credible ansers I can question the credentials of traders to assert their right as stakeholders in Deveraja Market.    



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Madhukar

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Now that I have a few minutes of Leisure (note my latest post to the topic in Information - certainly not publicing it), I get back to the point raised by Mr Suresh Yerapathi and Capt. Murthy on KR Market, Bangalore.

I am "unfortunate" enough to be residing in Bangalore out of compulsion rather than by choice. I had occassion to visit the KR Market in Bangalore although I had passed the row of shops in front of the new complex. (Note that the shops in front are still in the old building - Heritage?). The minute I went through the passage leading to the mulitstoried Market complex it was chaos as ususal. Although the upper tiers are vacant, loads of road side hawkers with permanent stalls for fruits, vegetables, condiments, etc., are present.
Vegetables are still sold only on the ground floor and cellar levels.

Now compare it with the likes of the new "All under one roof concept" found in BIG BAZAAR -*-. Even there the vegetables, which tend to be rather dirty, bulky and which cannot be properly stacked, are placed only on the ground floor. It is only the luxury items that are placed above ground floor.

The concept under which the Devaraja Market and the like were started was to provide a place where all the vegetable "GROWERS" had a common place where they could bring their produce to be sold directly to the buyer. The buyer could also have the choice of selecting the best available produce and get it at a competetive price. After selling their produce for the day, they would leave (staying back only if they were not able to sell their entire lot) the place and go back to their villages only to come back with the next lot of harvest. There was plenty of time to clear the place of the left overs and get it ready for the coming day.

The present situation is that the growers/producers bring their produce to the place behind the Dassara Exhibition Complex off the Mysore-Nilgiri Road where they sell to the people who have "OCCUPIED" the interior of Devaraja Market and made it their fullfledged residence. Hence there is no time now for clearing the garbage of not only the unsellable products but also the mess created by the people living in the complex.

When such is the case, will these people living inside allow for the demolition of the building and allow the construction of the proposed multistoried complex? Certainly not. They will then cry foul at being "deprived" of their living space.

If construction of a multistoried complex is to be done, it can be done anywhere else.

The original Devaraja Market can be restored to its long lost glory by providing space only for the growers. The Market place can be kept clean. The traffic congestion will be only during the early morning on Sayyaji Rao Road and Dhanvantari Road.


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Suresh Yerapathi

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Its like starting a fresh, when you demolish and rebuild you can take control of the situation at the Market.. if we plan to restore it would the same situation as it is now.. nobody knows how much rent and maintenance is being collected.. if a new property comes up then the authorites have and can determine better rentals..



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Capt. Anup Murthy

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C'mon, just to collect rent and maintenance, one cannot demolish and re-build. Thats like saying when one gets a head ache, the solution is to cut off ones head! Whats the guarantee that one can take control if it is rebuilt? Again, who's got the money to demolish and re-build, Mr. Yerapathi? The MCC is up to it's neck in debt it seems. We will end up with a half broken down building for a long time, looking at how things have been done so far in Mysore and that by the time the building is half demolished, some one will go to court and halt the proceedings and then we'll have this broken down building in the middle of Mysore for the next ten years or so and then perhaps we can promote tourism in Mysore saying that this market "sort of" looks like the broken down colliseum in central Rome! 


Also, it seems some of us have taken it to heart that ALL the tenants at the Market are defaulters and that every one has to be punished en-mass! 


Look, if the MCD of Delhi can attach the bank accounts of hospitals, well known schools and other organizations who have not paid their land tax and other rentals, why can't the MCC do the same? If you are looking at better revenue from the building and better collection methods, MCC Mysore must have the guts to come up with an answer.  


Of course, the MCC officials will not want that. The MCC Commissioner has gone on record that the Torsteel foundation calls for demolishing and rebuilding and I have a copy of their "report" Oh about 4 pages long with useless pictures in between and it says nothing of the sort. We have to trust these people to get the rebuilding work done? They will only line their pockets and thats the bottom line. Restoration is far cheaper, can be done without the MCC and if they don't have the money, there are various grants available and I know some corporates that can part foot the bill. Nobody will contribute to re-building the market as the contractor and MCC officials will pocket that money. 


As one heritage minded citizen with a long background in conservation of World heritage Sites (UNESCO mind you) put it, Mysoreans need to be educated about their history and heritage. Thats the only way to ensure that they understand the value of conservation.



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GVK

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A good point, Capt.Murthy. If it's restoration, and only if it is so, then heritage-minded corporates would help. When we are talking heritage - which is why, I guess, we are making D'Market issue a big deal - restoration is the only talk one can have. Anyone who comes up with a demolish-rebuild option has a 'contractor' blood in him. No disrespect meant to contractors (whose bread and butter is in building things anew, not tinkering with old buildings).


Prathiba has a fresh perspective on this D'Market issue. Click here for her post - NGOs: Beyond public toilets.      



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Suresh Yerapathi

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Great and a very good point Capt. Murthy!!


Lets work towards restoring the whole D'Market and we all should make sure that the Devaraja Market will not be and shall not be demolished. The Deveraja Market will be restored..


Is there any possibility among us to put in the resources to collate information and do up a proposal detailing costs implications, procedures, etc., with restoration.


Like the Mysore Citizen's Forum, which did work at Tsunami affected villages, we can envisage another forum for Devaraja Market. Like you said Capt. that we can go full force with the corporates to chip in whatever resources are needed for the same.


What do everybody think?



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GVK

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Suresh Yerapathi wrote:


 Like the Mysore Citizen's Forum, which did work at Tsunami affected villages, we can envisage another forum for Devaraja Market.... What do everybody think?


MCF Tsunami-type funding is a thought. Agencies that contributed to the fund (as given by SoM editor Mr K B Ganapathy) are: Rotary Mysore-Star-of-Mysore (Rs.63,69250); Bharat-I-Tao Trust (Rs. 44,85,946); JSS Mahavidyapeetha (Rs.42,61,800); Rotary West-Andolana (Rs.12,65,646); Mahajana Education Society (Rs.5,45,000); Tektronics (Rs.2,22.000).


It is not clear if Mysore Citizens Forum (MCF) is an on-going thing, like MGP, or a fire-fighting outfit that comes into play in a crisis or at times of dire need felt by the citizenry. By definition, MCF sounds the right kind of agency that could help the D'Market situation. For the heritage-minded D'Market poses a crisis. The operative word here is 'heritage'.


The question is: Why would those who so generously (and without seeking any publicity, I might add) weighed in with their help in Tsunami's wake, help in D'Market case, if, after restoration, the heritage building is to be turned over to traders? This could well be a sticking point. Those who come up with plans and resouirces for a heritage makeover would be justified in knowing how D'Market would be put to use; and, even having a say in the decision.      



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Suresh Yerapathi

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My thought process was on similar lines but not with donations and contributions.. Tsunami relief work needed generous contributions, but Devaraja market doesn't need contributions.. But what Devaraja Market needs at the momemt is the collective movement to gather information and compile a project proposal as to how much it would cost to restore as per the standards of restoration.


The forum should look after restoration process, implementation process and work with the authorities to ensure the proper funding is managed.



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Capt. Anup Murthy

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I would like to inform Mr. yerapathi that such a project proposal and costs have been made and submitted to the MCC from the members of the heritage Committee. The MCC has been sleeping on it. We can indeed form a large group to look into this issue. Please read Ms. Pratibha's blog on NGO' and toilets. That forum has the ideas for forming a group. Ms. pratibha has also made suggestions of who should be part of the group and so have others. Kindly leave your comments there as well and maybe we can take the discussions on that forum. Thanks.


Regarding the question about MCF posed by Mr. GVK, I spoke to one of the MCF members and he mentioned that they came together ONLY for the sake of the Tsunami relief. They will disband shortly. However, individuals can be sourced from the MCF and they can be approached for help as well. I will be speaking with their "team leader" Mr. Giri shortly and update that info on the NGO's blog posted by Ms. Pratibha.



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Suresh Yerapathi

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Capt. Murthy, we all have known that the heritage committee has drawn up a proposal, but are you or we aware of the contents.. is the proposal having the suggestions, costs implications and how the project is going to be implemented? I am not sure about the details..

I think the Heritage committee should and must get involved with the finalization process! A forum as strong as the MCF is the need of the hour to restore the Devaraja Market. The Committee seems to have adopted the strategy of wait and watch.. if they can't move the papers across, then no one can!! well if there is a strong forum with its crystal clear objective of restoring Devaraja Market, then it would and will make a difference to the authorities.


I am not sure whether the Committee has even gone to the extent of asking the authorities as to what might be the status of the report? if they have asked the concern authorities.. what could have been the reply? and Why the delay?


Thanks about the NGO's & the toilets blog link.. I did glance through it and felt not to reply to that..


 



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Vijendra Rao

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Every time a controversy arises over a structure, I am reminded of R.K. Narayan's Lawley Road. There is a similar public outcry over the presence of the statue of Lawley located in city centre because it is shameful to allow it to remain after independence as Lawley, the British officer, always treated the natives with total contempt. (He never entertained them unless they knelt before him). In deference to public opinion, the statue is pulled down only for the authorities to be enlightened by a letter in the readers' column of a newspaper that it was a case of mistaken identity and that Lawley was indeed a great officer and notoriety actually accompanied another Lawley against whom the citizenry had expressed its outrage. (The letter writer is apparently in another town and perhaps gets to read only about the demolition, not the protests). 


In the current instance, there is no scope for the market to be restored on the day the ongoing debate settles in favour of the building having really enjoyed the heritage tag. It may be too late.


Be that as it may, the other day, a Canadian friend, settled in Mysore for long, expressed his anguish over the fate awaiting the Devaraja Market building. Shopping will never be the same again, he concluded.  


PS: GVK may note that the man who bags the contract to dismantle the contract is no professional contractor, but a poor teacher (if I remember the story that I read many years ago right) who sees big bucks in the deal only to realize that he has made gross miscalculation! 



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Capt. Anup Murthy

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A reply to Mr. Yerapathi, yes, I have read a copy of the report that the heritage committee has sent to the MCC. it is all in Kannada. That does not contain costs but makes a case for conservation. However, a committee member has written a letter and a brief report and has also made estimates and this is also with the MCC. The MCC knows the cost, no doubt about it. The heritage committee is empowered to make certain things known to the MCC and the Ministry at the state level. It cannot force the MCC to act.


The MCF is not a strong forum as such. It is a collection of people who decided to do things on their own. However, you are right, we must form a strong collection of citizens for going into this issue as well just like MCF.  


Mr. Vijendra Rao, like we say in the US, it ain't over till the fat lady sings! Not too late yet unless we do something now with the heritage sites including lansdowne buildings and others.


 



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Vijendra Rao

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One should be happy that there is this informed and animated debate on the issue. But, some years back - when Mr.K. Shivaramu was the MCC commissioner, to be precise - a heritage building was demolished on 100 Feet Road. I highlighted the same in Deccan Herald, which I then served. There was no groundswell of public opinion then as in the current instance. The building in question was built by Tipu Sultan. Would any indigenous Mysorean throw more light on it?


PS: Capt. Anup may please note that the fat lady was not the last to sing on that occasion. Yet, it was all over. smile:



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