In writing this, I am only trying to draw the attention of whoever that may be interested in the subject, to my article posted in my blog, 40 hours ago, in response to the issue Dr. Shenoy has raised. I have my doubts though whether this handpost will help at all; if the issue itself has elicited such a pathetic viewership, what to speak of response which is non-existent, what to speak of my comment.

Jai Mysore!  

Perhaps Dr. Shenoy, no one wants to debate this because most people agree with you, as I do. I did not write earlier because some people would say, "here are the usual suspects commenting"! You have summarized it well and I agree it is more to do with vote bank politics than real emancipation of the lower end of the spectrum.

Dear Friends,

we need ideas to stop this devastating ploy of the political class soon. We know from history how our own people sold our country to Clive. Now our own politicians are preparing grounds to bring down some of the finest educational institutions in the world all in the name of pusedo sccial justice. How helping the daughter of K. R. Narayanan to join IFS under dalit quota helps dalit. She must have gone to the finest colleges in the world. had exposure to top people in the world. and still could get in under the quota system. What an irony.

What should we do next? Please suggest.

Just a few moments ago, I had a roam-about of mymysore.com and find that the viewership for the masala puri item post has just crossed the century mark.

We're missing something here, I guess. Masale-puri pertains to a plea by a non-resident Mysorean whose culinary reputation appears at stake. And networking the Mysore-connected the world over happens to be part of this site's mission statement. The relatively higher view-count the item attracted has partly to do with the alert mail I sent out to well-informed Mysoreans, including Mr Vijendra Rao and Dr Shenoy, drawing attention to Vidya's plight.

View-count comparisons may not reflect relative importance of issues. If one were to go by view-counts, one would scrap 'Bookswap'; and the web forum networking Mysore NGOs, about which I had sent out alert mail as well.  

This is in reference to Dr.Bhamy Shenoy's post. I am sorry, I couldn't post this sooner. These are but some broad ideas that I have. They may coincide/overlap with Save Mysore, as also echo the aspirations of some of mymysore community members (like Capt. Anoop, Mr. Venkat Ranga and Mr.GVK) and others Mysoreans. 

a. I have spoken to Gandhi Bhavan and its Diretor Shivarajappa has agreed to join hands with me on a programme of awakening our youngsters - school and college goers - to the ills of corruption. Without moralising the subject, I want to give them direct examples from our daily lives to illustrate how this evil is eating into the vitals of our system.

Students will take oath at the end of the session that they will not encourage graft. This oath-taking, accompanied by a brief account of it, will appear on my portal (which is due for launch any time now). Students from across the country can join the campaign, of course, with initiative provided by elders. They can even contribute ideas for strengthening our initiative, which will have Mysore City as its focus.

If we want a better life, we have to fight this evil, but a great many of us have come to make peace with it. I have tried to engage the youth on this issue whereever possible. Last year, when a friend and I conducted a certificiation course for the final semester MBA students at Mysore University, I was pained, though it came as no surprise, that not one voice said corruption could be fought. This is dangerous. They were resigned to it even before being exposed to it in any big way. We cannot blame them because that is what we have given them. Why I mention this particular example is, our MBAs, just as, say, the IASs, are going to play a vital role in safeguarding the interests of this country - an issue over which Mr. Shenoy has rightly expressed concern. Acceptance of corruption as a way of life is a sure sign of preparedness for treason. We have, though in a very limited manner, tried to bestir the youth for building a resurgent India. It is a fallacy to think that all the current growth indices are going to make India a global player unless we develop a national character, a brand identity for the nation.    

Since Dr. Shenoy has sought ideas and suggestions, we could include two items related to caste. Encouraging student-student interaction for mutual development (Read "Reserved on reservations" at  http://bangalorebornmysoremigrated.blogspot.com); getting them to pledge that they won't discriminate against caste.

I had suggested to the Bahadur Institute of Management Sciences that its MBA students could be entrusted the responsibility of event-managing Dasara, which is otherwise generally handled by those without passion and imagination. There are many advantages in this: the students will get hands-on experience of handling an event as prestigious as Dasara; their talents will find a forum, and year after year there will be freshness of thinking; swindling by the Dasara committees can be phased out by depoliticising what is essentially a cultural event; it allows for brand-building of Mysore as also of Bahadur Institute. Further, the institute can earn a decent sum, which can be utilised for providing greater facilities for the students. It is desirable that proceeds of the celebrations go to an academic institution rather than a commercial outfit. Students can also earn incentives with which their dependency on parents is reduced. Involvement of local managers will preempt questions of the local flavour of the festivities being lost. We have just witnessed a spectacular event at the opening of the World Cup soccer tournanment; can't we aim to play host to a similar spectacle, to begin with?

b. Hygiene and tourism go hand in hand. I was pleasantly surprised that this point was brought out by a delegate (whom I congratulated later) at the recent fair on tourism. I have for years now tried to get the right attention (read support) for a huge and innovative campaign on this subject. I haven't given up; my efforts will continue through my portal. The Institution of Engineers had come forward to support me on one such initiative on the World Environment Day, but had to be postponed fearing rain. It will be held sometime this month. It is a campaign to discourage men urinating in public. Men cannot fight this menace (though I know of a lecturer who, after futilely complaining to the authorities, starting shooing away men unzipping near his house with stones) without getting into fisticuffs, women, who are worse affected are also worse equipped to fight this menace. So, we have roped in tiny tots who would be armed with colourful umbrellas, which would otherwie protect them from rain ans shine, but will come handy in shooting open in the direction of these indecent men when caught in the act. The umbrellas will have 'Clean Brigade' painted on it. The new zilla panchayat CEO, Mr. Chennappa Gowda, has shown keen interest in the programme, too.

This will also go on my portal as part of a bigger campaign on hygiene.

These are but some minor initiatives to make one's own consciousness less troublesome. There is no unrealistic hope of working wonders overnight. One should not expect dramatic results. None has a magic wand.   

Thanks for that, Dr. Shenoy.

Yes, we can sure have a debate on the lines suggested by you. Let us wait for a couple of days for other comments and suggestions, if any, before we prepare the ground for the event.

 

 

Dear Friends,

I entirely agree with doctor shenoy on a public debate on reservation. I am with you on that.

On the other side what a fabulous idea to have a management institute to manage Dasara. May be all the management institutes can join to have a committee and have BBM students as observers and volunteers. Great idea.

Shanks

Your views are avante garde. Your sense of hurt and despair is evident. I would be happy if you could share greater information than has been possible here. The info you have shared is both candid and revealing, and eminently front-pageable in any serious publication. Just in case you choose not to go public on all that you have left unsaid, please share it with those like me who would be keen to know more about the IITs from somebody as informed as you are.

It is difficult for me to accept some of the observations made by Bardwaj against IITs to prove his conclusion that implied quota system of IITs in the early days is worse than the current quota system that is being thrust upon them. I continue to believe that the current quota system is just the beginning of the end of IITs, IIMs and AIIMs.

I do not have any inside information on the admission of IITs in the early years before entrance examination system was introduced. Still being a student of the second batch of IIT Madras, my perception of IITs is vastly different than his.

There is definitely nothing wrong in creating a meritocracy and IITs over the year have created such a meritocracy when every other institution in India is doing the opposite in the name of social justice and caste. IITs have also contributed in some small ways to improve teaching in other engineering colleges by providing training to thosuands of teachers. Yes, IITs could have done far more and should have done far more.

Those countries who contributed to the starting of IITs did contribute to India's development and I do not think they got any benefit unlike some of the aid they give to promote their exports. We need to appreciate Ruusia (IIT Bombay), Germany (IIT Madras), UK (IIT Delhi) and US (IIT Kanpur) for their contribution. It is true that later the US got the benefit from our brain drain. But while giving the aid, they would not have expected that many of the IIT product would settle down in the US and help build the silicon valley.

My classmates were not selcted based on entrance examination. I do not know how they were selected. An attempt was made to rank the students from each state and best of the applied students were selected. Certainly there could have been some influence used. But it was not rampant and not caste based like today. There was definitely an attempt made to have students from all different states of India. As a result many of my classmates were not upto the standard. But I never thought that there was any kind of quota system based on caste.

In fact in the first year final examinations 80% failed the maths and they had to conduct a retest and most were promoted. Is this beacsue of the implied quota that Bardwaja is talking about I do not know. Or is it because of very high standards though I never thought that it was all that difficult and I passed very easily.

There were exactly four students from Karnataka. Two of them had ranks (second and ninth). I was one of them . The other two were also above average and none came through any implied quota. It was a time when IIT brand was not all that established. I was from a small town and that too attended a Kannada medium school. PUC was just one year and besides learning subjects, I had to master English. Still I was able to get admission despite being a brahmin student without any pull. I must have done very poorly in interview. Perhaps the state quota helped me. Another classmate of mine from Chennai who was the President gold medalist could not get admission into any Chennai colleges and lost a year. He got admission into IIT despite being a brahmin.


As far as IITs meeting the original objectives there have been at least two reports produced to take corrective steps. It has been recognied that IITs gave rise to brain drain. I have also written articles on this aspect of IITs questioning the real contribution of IITs to India's development.

I agree with Vijendra Rao that if Bardwaj has information on the implied quota system based on caste (other than state based quota which was well known and national integartion was a big thing at that time), he should give the proof. Being a part of IIT I did not see any.

I think Mr Shenoy has misunderstood what I said. Let me say this. As well as saying that the 'clandestine quota system' opearting at beginning, I am saying to my knowledge it was operating until a few years ago, and I have no reason not to believe it is not operating now. I have close friends relatives and ex-students in senior positions in IITS to give me enough inside information on all aspects of IITs and AIIMs.

Mr Shenoy seems to believe that whilst every publicly-funded orgnisations State or Central in India is mired in nepotism and corruption, somehow there are islands of meritocracy -IITs, IIMs and AIIMs which are insulated from this. We are asked to believe here that the government at the centre with its officials have been upholding meritocracy in these institutions in all these years. I leave it to my fellow bloggers to comment on this. Again I would like to say that Mysore university (or any other state university for that matter ) is singled out as an example of what quota system or corruption can do. I am saying that from the knowledge I have, IITs too are touched by these practices, and the difference is that thhese practices are not public knowledge. Do I have proff? Yes, I do but I do not want to place my friends and relatives in situations that they will not like.

Are we trying to say that 20% of clandestine quota is acceptable, but 50% of overt quota is undesirable? To me , any quota whetever the kind is unacceptable. But I would rather accept an open quota be it 20% or 80%. I was educated in a local primary school, went to a local college and university and secured jobs on merit in India those days. Left the country when these practices became unacceptable. I am now a citizen of a country which I can say is almost corruption free , and will now let others to discuss what I raised.

Would be nice to know whereyou live Mr. Bharadwaj, corruption free country! There's corruption everywhere, only depends on how deep it is in the system or it is at a level that does not affect citizens on a day to day basis but does affect them without their knowing it, when it goes out from their taxes! I've been around the World many many times the last two decades, still do, even now as I write I am in Singapore and be in the US for the fourth time this year, but rarely heard of a place that was "almost" free from corruption. Need to know this place so that we can all move lock stock and barrel. Sorry to digress from the topic but interesting to know things that I don't know yet.

Hello captan,

Could I suggest you to read my comments carefully while you are navigating around the globe! I said 'almost 'corruption free' and I can expand on it but would not. Do you have any useful input with reference to the topic under discussion?

Hello Captain,

You are now bringing in Jaswanth Singh's case which sounds absurd to me. But you are certainly contributing to the line I have taken that it is fantasy to expect islands of meriticracy in a place inhabited by political masters like Jaswanth Sigh.

My claims sound fantastic because I know what has been going on and you do not. Certainly I am not going to give details and jeopardising the few honest and well-meaning persons who trust me.

When the topic of quota was raised and condemned, I suggested the existence of 'covert quota' operated in each department, and no one seem to have raised these in years and let alone condemning it. We can discuss until the cows come home, but if quotas are proposed and introduced there is very little any Indian citizen can do, but accept it. If you are still an Indian citizen, you need to watch out, Jaswant Singh may be back in a few years.